Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

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Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Vander » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:17 am

See full announcement here:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/466 ... /?p=646358

I would like to use the same logic for BoS/BoM later.
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Bandy » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:39 am

Hi Vander.

Thanks for working on this, S!. Just a question or two. While people have been clamoring for co-op, though few people actually partook of the more co-op style missions you had running the past few months, I'm not sure going so completely co-op with a single mission on the offer is going to work.

What I mean is, as I understand if only one person takes off, and many times a single player will sit on our server, then our server is locked from anyone else flying until he completes the mission. This is going to happen a lot because that one person is not going to wait.

Is there a way to combine a bit of the MP mission dynamics you had before, where more than one mission can be in progress at the same time. That way the one player who takes off and shuts that mission from joining, but another mission is offered shortly after to anyone who joins 10 to 30 minutes later. Few people would exit a mission once they get altitude, or well on their way to the objective, and who doesn't want to land after a successful bomb run?

Not sure if it can be done, offering multiple coop missions simultaneously, but if it can...
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Vander » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:20 pm

I understand your concern Bandy, but this co-op is meant to be pure co-op. When people can arrive and fly any time they want, they will not be flying together. The missions are mostly targeted at people who know each other already and want to fly together, but fly actual missions and not on a deadly deathmatch server.

About airfield being locked: You can always ask the other person to end the mission, just like in the old co-op days.
Let's see if it works. I will give it a go at least! :grin:
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Haashashin » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:29 pm

Sounds nice, will give it a go later today.

P.S. I forgot to mention that I will take a look at the ME and see if I can help to build (copy is more orrect :lol: ) more of these missions.
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Bandy » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Mugue, Ankor, Flashy (not Flashman), and I were giving it a test for about 2 hours Monday. Some thoughts while fresh in my head...

1) We had some trouble with spawning in and having the airfield closed even with no one taking off. Mugue thinks this may be tied to selecting a Brisfit if it spawns in first. Mugue and Flashy were spawned in Camels and I followed spawn in a Brisfit and there was no problem though. Need to bug track verify this...

2) A real noob joined us ("how do I start my engine...?") and he got frustrated when we couldn't help him find his mix control. We went off and did the mission, but as he sat on the airfield he delayed the restart of the next mission because he wouldn't leave by "end flight". Somebody like this if feeling vexatious could tie up the server for quite a while.

3) With many of us testing on the server, people kept showing up and couldn't figure out what was going on, and then left likely frustrated... We simply couldn't keep up with explanations...

4) It seemed that as we finished this or that mission requirement (bombing or balloon busting..), then it seemed the AI defense would 'spawn in' where no airplanes were before. Are they proximity spawns? It's doesn't feel like they are flying a patrol or anything, they just appear. Perhaps they need to spawn further out, and spawn earlier when players are further from objective if possible. They just seemed to be showing up out of the blue... Can they fly a flight path instead?

5) we had a deep patrol mission, I shot down a DFW in the patrol zone, but "mission complete" did not show up. We kept up the deep patrol for a long time afterwards, but saw no more NME. We RTB'd with no resolution to the mission that we know of. Perhaps get rid of the mission complete subtitle (you wouldn't know anyways), just let the mission evolve a natural progression, and then have the announcement after the mission ends when on the ground or dead.

6) The server rotated in the middle of the mission set, maybe 2 or 3 missions were done. Maybe the missions run when nobody is there anyways? Then again, we had several incidents/problems with the spawn lock, see #1.

7) any chance of putting more AI flights out there just to fill the sky a bit? We noticed the same AI circling and landing over our heads at home base several times...

EDIT 8) Oh, no one can see anything in spectate.

Otherwise we had good times! Many thanks Vander. Right now people are showing up and not getting it, the word has to come out...
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Mugue » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:34 am

Bandy's feedback of the new mission pretty well sums up what we found.
The structure of the missions was fine imho. And IF you know what to do (read:if you read the briefing) things moved along nicely.
I too would like it if it were possible that there could be "more going on". Things felt slightly sterile if you know what I mean? With so few players in game...would it be possible to have more ai going about other tasks, so it doesn't feel like you're all alone fighting the war? As an example, say you're on a bombing mission, it would be cool if as you're flying to the target, you might see other planes fighting. Then you might feel the need to sneak around/under them to complete the mission in addition to the planes that will inevitably try to intercept you. Not sure I'm making sense(need food).
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Vander » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:27 am

Thanks for the extensive testing guys!

1) Not sure what this is. I do know that after a mission, the airfield status will be reset and this means you HAVE to re-select an aircraft from the airfield menu. Simply hit " fly" again doesn't work.

2) Yes, not sure how to get around this; it's part of the logic. In the true co-op mode you could vote to kick someone. Is this possible in DM as well?

3) Not reading briefing, This is a matter of time

4) Could you actually see the aircraft spawn in? Then I'll have to change the view distance.

5) Thanks, need some sort of logic to determine when the sortie is over

6) Must be some hidden timer still in the mission!

7) Sure, but I first need to catch the other (game logic) bugs...

8) No spectate... weird, it's a server setting. Have to check.

9) According to ANkor there were no clouds; will check as well

Just to make sure: This mission type was not designed to attract a lot of players to our server, but to gauge interest or this sort of mp flying and to server our own needs in the future.
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Bandy » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:01 am

1) I agree, as mentioned, we'll have to try to bug track this airfield lock to isolate. The first time it happened, I think Flashy was on the airfield in an SE5 (what he seemed to fly consistently), and Mugue and I were locked out. Then the next time I was on the field in a Brisfit and nobody else could enter - I hadn't even started the engine. I think it happened at least once or twice more. Mugue and I were trying different aircraft with each different mission.

4) To be honest, no, I did not see the AI spawn in and we could have missed their approach. For the few missions we headed over the mud to bomb, or bust a balloon, we achieved the objective and only then did the AI arrived at middle distance. This could just be our inattentiveness/focus on the objective... Time will tell.

6) I'm thinking now that perhaps our premature exit of a few missions (to open the airfield up after the lock-bug) likely rotated through the 7 mission set, and that is why the server rotated on us. Nothing to fix here, or low priority.

9) Only Ankor had this problem, and he admitted his RoF was idle for over a year. His 'Recovery' and SYN server rotate did not help. He is running an nVidia 285 so perhaps he's using this olde card with new drivers and therefore has some unique client-side graphics issue.
Then again, perhaps there is some proprietary weather/cloud file? I think he mentioned finding a file out of sorts, see RoF thread. But usually this results in not being able to enter the server right? Weird.

Bottom line, we had a lot of fun. Yes the sky needs to be more active, even just for ambiance, but what I did notice is that what we bombed in one mission was still damaged in the next mission. This has nice potential for making a series of missions where the outcome from one mission is visible in the next, so consecutive effects of multiple bomb runs, etc. is all there.

Question: can some 'decision tree' logic be introduced so that the next mission is based on the outcome of the last? Successful recon results in that target assignment in next mission. Busting a tank assault means a blunted offensive, resulting in counter-attack, but if enemy tanks break through then further ground attack is required...
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Vander » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:44 pm

1) It's possible that the issue is because I use a special "Fakefield" airfield to spawn aircraft. It should have multiple spawn points, but it seems it's buggy. I'll revert to a normal airfield object.

4) The aircraft should spawn at least 6km away, so i guess you have missed their approach.

9) I think I know his problem: You'll only notice it when you have not downloaded our "syndicate" clouds before, but I'll fix it.
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Re: Syndicate introducing "PvE" missions!

Postby SYN_Bandy » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:59 am

Another question. You have the AI spawning near the objectives, but can you provide random spawn points over various sectors of the map? Perhaps a percent chance for either friendly and/or enemy to appear. Not sure if this is possible, but may mimic the effect of a busy front, and hopefully even generate AI vs. AI dogfights we can either choose to avoid or engage in.

I really like the AI flight logic/flight plan approach you used for 'Active Front', it does make for a more occupied sky. Can this aspect of Active Front be combined with the co-op style missions? Just trying to think out of the box.

Hoping I am not speaking out of turn on the RoF forum thread on this subject. I can be quite vocal re: things I am passionate about, and I am pissed off that the MP community largely ignored your active front missions and chose instead to fly NW, which IMHO offers sub-par and now very stale missions with ludicrous plane sets... I appreciate their larger community effort to some degree, but to me it is sad that their watered-down offerings now represent what RoF MP is for the community on a regular basis.
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