Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

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Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby JG2_von_Hammer » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:58 pm

I started flying the server back when the Flak was set to a low setting, much more realistic. From what I gather, it's now set to ace level and is a bit extreme and I believe that is a mistake.

I don't see everything going on, but here is my individual impression. Somebody was complaining because their base was being bombed, and the way the server was originally, the base would go inactive for about 15min. From there it seems things escalated as the people who love the bomber style, two seater missions continued to take the challenge and push forward to accomplish their missions. Even now, with flak at ace, base AA appearing to be set to regen immediately, bases that don't fall and stay down even a minute, the people who love to bomb are still taking the challenge- and probably gettng much better at it along the way- but with an emotional price that is negative for the game, as well as the server.

Anyway, whatever the reasons, I see a negative effect for eveyone appearing:
I see newbies come and go because they fly a good old fashioned mission and get nailed by flak after 20 min of getting there, and they don't know they need to evade heavily at all times when behidn the lines.
I see kills stolen by flak.
I see people getting killed by their own flak chasing an enemy who dared to cross the lines.
I see a mass amount of people who just don't venture over the lines because they don't want to die from flak.
Anyone who wants a chance of getting a kill streak is pretty much staying behind their own lines 99% of the time because flak is radar controlled and it's most certainly a high risk that flying over the lines is a suicide mission just from flak, let alone there might be enemy around.
I have seen an increase of tensions between competing pilots and much less fun style chat and talking.
The times I typically fly the server have fewer players, probably because of flak- less interest in the game as what they can do is now more limited- I have less interest too.
I see entire flights of 5 or 6 planes wiped out by flak.
I see flak even take out guys on their own side of the lines near the front (far reach by enemy flak)

If this is to be realistic, then every pilot who ever flew in WWI should be listed as dead by flak.

(it's really hard to type below this line as the forum won't scroll down with my typing anymore and het screen jups with every letter I type- and actualy, a lot fo my text just vanished below this line)

It seem as if the server folks want to control how people fly instead of letting them be creative on their own. (bunch of text lost here)

I think it would bring some of the tensions down that I see these days. Call it Flak shock, but it'certainly has diminished some fo the fun in the game I used o see and hear. Poeple feel better when they know they are not going out on a possible suicide mission just because they are crossing the lines.

In the end, all I know is, the first guys who make another decent server that has normal flak in it, I'm there and my paypal donations will be there. I bought Rise of Flight, not Rise of Flak...
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Jedders » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:10 pm

Ok, thanks for your input. Im not sure how much of it is based in fact though. I dont think we have adjusted flak levels at any stage so the flak is still at original levels.

I dont experience the trouble you are having with flak while flying the server. Maybe because I fly high and stay fast. Maybe when I organise a low level bombing run I do it with numbers, never alone. Whatever the reasons, you seem to have a strong view on this and unfortunately there isnt much we can do to help you. The flak will remain as it is. Its the only deterant we have against base attack....MG is just too cpu intensive atm.

Thanks again for your thoughts...good discussion points here!
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Vander » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:03 pm

Flak level over no-mans land is set to "normal" . Near airfields it may be set to "high" , because as Jed said, we can't put a lot of MG's because of performance reasons.

Even over "high" AAA you are perfectly safe if you fly at 2000 m or higher. I'm usually not worried at 1500 m either. In fact I have crossed no-mans land plenty of times at 500 m or lower because of emergency and survived.

Here are some tips though:
- don't fly slightly behind and below a friendly while crossing AAA. They will shoot at the plane in front, but almost certainly hit you. Fly in abreast formation.
- don't go dogfighting close to an AAA site. In the end they WILL hit someone and you might get killed by your own AAA. If you have to dogfight near AAA, then either do it above 1500m or only make hit and run passes. Turn fights means you stay in a small confined zone and AAA will get you in the end...
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby Alexx78 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:20 am

To begin with that Syndicate best server with historical missions for me. But everything breaks down Anti-Aircraft Artillery that shoots at the speed of a machine gun MG-42... Peoples go to the server to fight with each other and not be constantly knocked super-AA guns. You do not wonder why all the people gone now fly on "NEW WINGS - Wargrounds" and no one on the "Syndicate"? (except for pre-planned events of course). Here's an example now tried to fly in the mission "SYN - Dawn to Dusk - February 1917 1.7" on the Sopwith Strutter as a bomber, and he has not been known bombsight, and I also advise you to "fly and bomb from a height of not less than 2000 meters"?? I of course tore to shreds the flak, and I do not even have time to cross the front line... Will be very sad if you continue to stand your ground, and respond commonplace formal replies (something like "create your own server and fly as you wish!"). But we must be totally blind not to see that the obvious thing: people vote with their feet against this state of things, that is gone from the server. And all with whom I fly (now on "Wargrounds") said in one voice that stopped attending Syndicate exclusively of flak for cheating.

Regards =AxA=V.Alexx
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Jedders » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:37 am

Thanks for the heads up, Alex. We do not run a dogfight server like circus or war grounds. Because of that bombing on our server at low alt is dangerous. Anything below 3000ft is suicide in a slow aircraft. If you wanna bomb in a strutter get down to 100ft and keep junking. One pass only and return later if needed.

We run our server for ourselves primarily and for weekly events otherwise. We do not charge a fee to use it. We won't be changing the flak.

This isn't a popularity contest and we are glad the other servers are doing well. It takes different setups to cater to different styles.
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Vander » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:32 pm

We can't remove flak around the targets just because the strutter is missing a bombsight. It will be better to lobby for a bombsight for the strutter! :grin:

But I do realize that flak can be very frustrating. So if you have any suggestions to make it more fun other than just to remove flak?
Maybe a longer response time for the gunners?
Should the aaa guns be further away from the target, but only the mgs up close?
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby Waxworks » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:06 pm

The issue with the higher rated flak is that it can suddenly shoot you out of the sky, I prefer flak that will warn you that you need to evade. I wouldn't use the highest level flak at all.

WW1 machines were simply not that good at bombing, the bombsights were nowhere near as effective as those in the game, nor were the bombs. You wouldn't expect WWII bombing on a WW1 server...

However, if what you want to do is 'old-fashioned' aerodrome bombing, then because of limitations it often isn't compatible with more sophisticated mission design. An alternative to increased flak is to move the aerodromes further away from the front to allow more time to intercept. Aerodrome bombing often simply exploits both absence of flak and aerodromes placed so that players can get into combat quicker.
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Vander » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:31 pm

Ah, if this is about the 10x flak then please tell me in which missions they still are hiding and I'll get rid of them. I don't really like them myself. It was an experiment.
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Haashashin » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:59 pm

Yeah some of my missions used that fast firing flak and I cant remember which so..as Vander said let us know which one use them yet so we can change it. I dont like it either.
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Re: Rise of Flak, WWI planes vs WWII flak

Postby SYN_Semispud » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:49 am

Some of this can be negated with tactics

I was able to have quite a bit of success bombing using the Strutter on Sunday, even dropping into an area that was ripping with ground fire and flak bursts. The mission was Battle of the Somme - September 1916 v1.3, so the AAA may not be the same as Dusk to Dawn, but some of this may help.

I would approach the area at about 2750-3000 feet, identify my target then used an initially steep dive angle that shallowed out near the targets. The actual drop was down near 100ft (or lower), then I'd hug the ground out of the target area. Once clear I could bring it up to about 1000ft and return in if a second run was required.

I have found a consistent dive angle, though great for accuracy, can be death. Simple reduction of the angle as you descend can throw off the guns on the way in. I have also found major low level turning in the target area an invitation for the guns. Keep low, keep your speed up and jink your way out.
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