Sunday 29th...

Vintage missions, tdm and mission editor discussion

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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby Waxworks » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:59 pm

Yes that would be the plan. More than one, even.

It seems an easy mission to build, the question would be when to set it. 1916 might be fun with FEs, Strutters and Rolands. The tank mission might be set too late for Strutters?
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Bandy » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:09 am

As we know tanks were first used in 1916 at the Somme, but perhaps not the tactics discussed earlier of course.

The first use of tanks on the battlefield was the use of 49 British Mark I tanks at the Battle of Flers-Courcelette (part of the Battle of the Somme) on 15 September 1916, with mixed results; many broke down, but nearly a third succeeded in breaking through. Of the forty-nine tanks shipped to the Somme, only thirty-two were able to begin the first attack in which they were used and only nine made it across "no man's land" to the German lines.


Would be neat to recreate the Battle of Flers-Courcelette! :grin:
We already have the Somme mission recently updated by Vander (in fact we flew it last Sunday with Strutters), would just need waves of tanks pushing across the mud towards Baupaume and lots of supply columns on both sides, the bigger the better. Can trains carry tanks? That would be a wonderful objective for Germans, and don't think it has been done before.

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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:17 am

LOL Bandy. The mission last Sunday, "VM - Battle of the Somme - September 1916 v1.4" actually features the Battle of Flers-Courcelette! I have Allied tanks in that mission, attacking towards Pozieres. There is a nice article online somewhere that describes the tank battles in detail.
Subtitles in that mission actually announce the tank attack. Allied pilots have to neutralize German artillery so the tanks will not get shot up.

You probably missed it as it is but one out of 5 or 6 stages in that battle.
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:49 am

I'm working on something. It will not be a historically correct scenario as I want to create a "balanced" mission. However, if the game logic works well we can easily copy it into more realistic scenarios.

Map will be the "online" Verdun map. The great advantage is that there is no no-mans land there.
Both sides will try to break through the lines. In order to do so they have to do conquer adjacent areas.

-Artillery will fire randomly at the area under attack
-If artillery spotters fly over an important objective inside the area (let's say a bunker complex/ trenches) the artillery fire will be guided to the objectives
-If the artillery spotters disappear, the artillery will fire at random again.
-When the initial objective is destroyed, tanks will start to move in the area
-At this point enemy artillery will start to fire at random in the area for defence.
-If an enemy balloon is up, it will guide the fire towards the tanks, thus slowing down/stopping the attack.
-If x number of tanks have reached the objective area (or x number at the same time) the area will be conquered and it will change color on the map.
-Repeat for next area.

-Artillery and tanks can be destroyed (either by enemy artillery, or aircraft). They will be repaired/respawned after a vehicle convoy (say 5 units) have arrived at the front.
-Vehicles will travel from depots to the front. If the depot gets hit, it will take longer for supplies to arrive at the front and thus longer to repair/respawn units at the front.

This logic will be implemented for both sides, but each side will attack a different part of the frontline. The side that breaks through first, will "win the map".

If this works, we'll have very interesting objectives for two-seaters that have a direct impact on the results:
-artillery spotting (simple logic, just stay over the objective and see it getting hit by artillery)
-tactical bombing of depots which will slow down the enemies attack
-ground attack of artillery, tanks, vehicles (maybe airfields?)

Optional: attacking an airfield will temporarily lower the refresh rate of available aircraft.

Initial plane set will probably be 1917. French: Strutter, SPAD VII, N17. German: DFW CV, Albatros DIII, maybe some Halb DIIs. We could add limited HPs and Gothas for depot destruction (Flyboys! :) )
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Bandy » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:39 pm

SYN_Vander wrote:LOL Bandy. The mission last Sunday, "VM - Battle of the Somme - September 1916 v1.4" actually features the Battle of Flers-Courcelette! I have Allied tanks in that mission, attacking towards Pozieres. There is a nice article online somewhere that describes the tank battles in detail.
Subtitles in that mission actually announce the tank attack. Allied pilots have to neutralize German artillery so the tanks will not get shot up.
You probably missed it as it is but one out of 5 or 6 stages in that battle.


Yes, did miss that stage as I started the VM with Jed and others (you too I think), but then left for lunch with family and a matinee theatre (Dickens "Christmas Carol"), but came back hours later and flew with Spud, Skydance, and WW for a while.
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Semispud » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:21 pm

I didn't miss it. I was flying at about 3500 feet above, trying to spot the artillery I needed to bomb. I kept getting distracted by the intense battle between the tanks and the forces near the village. Great stuff Vander!
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Jedders » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:54 pm

Can't wait, guys. This is gonna be great!
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby Waxworks » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:55 pm

Here's the Battleships! mission:
Battleships.zip
I set the original in 1916 with Strutters and Rolands, but these machines might have too light a bombload for the holidays, so I included a 1917 version with Halberstadts and DH4s so the players can sink ships by themselves, rather than have to work in teams. Not quite Vintage level stuff, but at offpeak times it might be fun?

Its quite simple in theory, eight cruisers from each side meet in a battle off Nieuport, and the players are invited to interfere. However there is a serious aspect to it as I want to test naval battles, if you're going to add more ships next year it might be an advantage to know how surface fights between ships work. What I'd most like to know is whether surface naval battles are feasible in terms of lag.

My preliminary tests were not encouraging, if you set one cruiser to attack another it will sink it in seconds, while if it is not specifically told to attack another ship it will not do so, even if enemy ships are easily within attack range. The logic I've used might be overcomplicated and the problem might be solved by a large commandattackarea, however this risks all the ships concentrating their fire on one enemy, which could just exacerbate the flimsy defence values?
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Vander » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:54 pm

Thanks Waxworks! We'll schedule this asap.

I know of the problems you mention. Artillery will destroy a target with pinpoint accuracy in seconds if you use "attack" or "attack area" with -attack ground objects- ticked. My solution is to use various "attack area" mcu's, -attack ground- ticked, each with different radius. But this is difficult for moving objects.
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Re: Sunday 29th...

Postby SYN_Jedders » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:29 am

Are we gunna have a couple of new missions on their own rotation for Sunday then?..
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