Balance

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Balance

Postby Tomio » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:05 pm

Hello,

As every one noticed, performance of russian fighters had nothing to do with previous Il2 and 109 easily rules the skies.
Here is a few ideas to balance teams with current planes because it's not always funny for russian side...






1- The weather : It's like summer as of now and i use to say it's a 109 weather cos it's allowing them to climb and spot anything below.
Current weather got nothing to do with eastern front in winter. Put a big overcast weather or at least much more clouds.
Eastern front fight were very low especially at winter. Trails fights shouldn't take place here.


2- No need to have both model of 109 on the same map. Real pilots did not have the choice between F4 and G2 and it's quite funny to see most peoples taking the older F4 because it's better than the G2...
Therefore the G2 model should be the only 109 model, it's far good enough.


3- I know the 190 were not at Stalingrad but having more of them brings some variety for russian fighters and at least one fighter which they can outurn...
Don't worry, the Luftwaffe doesn't rule the sky because of the 190 but because of the 109.


4- There is oftenly more germans than russian and even when teams are balanced, there is much more german fighters than russians ones cos a lot of russian flies Sturmoviks...
For example :
15 germans : 14 fighters + 1 bomber
15 russians : 10 fighters + 5 sturmoviks
For this reason, Luftwaffe fighters should be highly limited but not VVS side. They had so many planes and it's ridiculous to don't be able sometime to take a Yak-1
Adding this will force Luftwaffe fighters to bring their plane back home if they want to fly again on it...


regards,
Last edited by Tomio on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Balance

Postby SYN_Jedders » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:09 pm

Ho tomio, you make some good points!. I agree on the G2 rather than the F4 and again on the yak1 limits.

The weather thing will change with each mission, this is only a placeholder mission ATM.


Keep the suggestions coming!
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Re: Balance

Postby JG1Pragr_J6 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:33 am

If I can react from my limited experience point of view. First let me say I spent about 3 years (since 2009 to 2012) of flying VVS in old Il-2:1946 in online campaign. These were Air Domination War and Frontovoe Nebo. I finished more than 1 000 sorties there, most of them with planes from 1941 to 1943. So I have some considerable experience flying Russian planes. In general I have no idea where you find that Russian planes in BoS are worse than these in old Il-2. The old Il-2 DF servers suffered by introduction of plane out of time frame just to get the balance. If they have the relevant plane set for specific time frame, the situation was usually worse than in BoS. Efficiency of Russian canons was another part of problem. Once again the situation in BoS is better by huge margin.

Ad 1) The weather is a problem. In the time BoS focus the weather should be non-flyable for most time. I think this is the last we want since what this game need the least is even less populate multiplayer. And that many people would stop play the game if they would join server with non-flyable weather I'm sure about. Or at best they would change the server. The assumption about high altitude fights is just half of the true. VVS resigned for high altitude planes (mostly). But that allowed Luftwaffe to hold the edge and caused huge loosses to Russians even under big numerical disadvantage.

Ad 2) I don't see the point here. G-2 at combat power is as good as F-4 at emergency. The turning performance is about the same and both 109s are worse than Yak. I know some people prefer F-4 but some G-2. Personally I don't even have the F-4 fully unlocked.

Ad 3) If you feel bad about 109 the situation would be even worse with 190. Maybe there would be few noobs turning on stall speed at zero altitude with 190, but gross of pilots will be used it as it should be. And under this condition the 190 is untouchable for any Russian plane.

Ad 4) I agree there is a problem. It's so striking that I spent most o my time in BoS in Stuka though I've always prefered fighters. IMO Sturmovik is more popular because its fighting style is closer to the fighters. You can finished two sorties in Sturmovik while Stuka would be climbing to the altitude for its attack. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed every mission in Stuka and every minute of climb but still there's not enough people feeling it same.

Now few points to balance from my point of view.

First map I saw on Syndicate was some tank attack on enemy AF. I expect it was some kind of test but I used it as an example. Luftwaffe should defend attacking tanks while VVS should destroyed them. Since these tanks were situated like 10-15 km deep in Russian lines and in the "radar" circle of nearest Russian AF, it was almost impossible for Germans to protect them. Same plane set, same map but totally different result. Just due mission design. That's the way how the "balance" could be achieved. Of course it shouldn't be overdone but that's matter of any balancing features.
Similar problem I saw yesterday on Syndicate server. Map where there are two and two AF around 10 km out of front line. They need to be supply first before the are open for use. The supply AF is about 100 km out of these two. And there is a problem. If one side is just few minutes (2 or 3) late, the other side open its own AFs and unleashes the vulching-fest. Since it has to fly just 20 km to get its planes to enemy front line AFs while the defending side needs to fly 100 km, it's almost impossible to change the situation. Or made it even. Personally I definitely have no problem to fly 100 km to front. It leaves me with enough time and space to get the best position I can. On the other hand many people expect something different from DF server.

I think there is a big problem in BoS multiplayer at this moment. There is no MP campaign yet. The only option we have atm is DF servers with limited number of pilots. Some people want to fight just in furballs. It means they spawn, take off and want to be in dogfight in less than five minutes. That's ok. But there is a different part o virtual pilots. They want to fly some "closer to reality" missions with ground targets, mission objectives (something else then "vulch them on airfield"). According to my experience in RoF I expect something similar from BoS Syndicate server. But what I've seen so far is close to those furballs servers in RoF.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Balance

Postby SYN_Jedders » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:54 am

Again good points. As we progress the furball crowd will probably move away from our server as was the case in RoF. This will leave us with more focussed mission over time. The mission yesterday was a new concept for us and it will indeed get tweaked to allow German forward bases closer to the He111 supply line.

We change as we go, keep the feedback coming in!
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Re: Balance

Postby SYN_Skydance » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:01 am

Would it work to have the supply planes taking off from airfields that are closer to enemy territory making the supply planes journey more treacherous and it more important for the fighters to provide close escort. Eg for the supply planes journey to run parallel to the front lines.
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Re: Balance

Postby Tomio » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:43 pm

JG1Pragr_J6 wrote:Ad 2) I don't see the point here. G-2 at combat power is as good as F-4 at emergency. The turning performance is about the same and both 109s are worse than Yak. I know some people prefer F-4 but some G-2. Personally I don't even have the F-4 fully unlocked.

U used to fly russian and this is why u don't see difference between them i believe but F4 is better
It can be 30 km/h faster, better maneuvrability by little, visibility by far

About new mission, i don't think the russians needs to be ressuplied by Pe-2.
It is not historical and only germans should need to do so. Ever heard about russian air bridge at Stalingrad ? Not me :wink:
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Re: Balance

Postby SYN_Blackrat » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:17 am

Tomio wrote:
JG1Pragr_J6 wrote:Ad 2) I don't see the point here. G-2 at combat power is as good as F-4 at emergency. The turning performance is about the same and both 109s are worse than Yak. I know some people prefer F-4 but some G-2. Personally I don't even have the F-4 fully unlocked.

U used to fly russian and this is why u don't see difference between them i believe but F4 is better
It can be 30 km/h faster, better maneuvrability by little, visibility by far

About new mission, i don't think the russians needs to be ressuplied by Pe-2.
It is not historical and only germans should need to do so. Ever heard about russian air bridge at Stalingrad ? Not me :wink:


Not every mission has to be historical, just fun :wink:
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Re: Balance

Postby JG1Pragr_J6 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:53 am

Tomio wrote:U used to fly russian and this is why u don't see difference between them i believe but F4 is better
It can be 30 km/h faster, better maneuvrability by little, visibility by far...


This would be for different discussion but F-4 is slightly faster only at deck and only at "Emergency" power. That's for three minutes and your engine is gone. On the other hand G-2 does the same thing (and some even better) at "Combat" power. That means for 30 minutes. But as I said this is topic for separated discussion.
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